Tankless Water Heaters: Saving you hundreds?

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Lately, there seems to be a lot of hype, propoganda, confusion, and misinformation surrounding the ever popular tankless water heater.  Let me begin by saying that I am not going to purposely bash the units, (I actually think they are pretty cool), I am simply going to try and separate the facts from fiction.  This discussion will only pertain to gas fired models, as electric units will struggle to meet the demands of the average size family (mom, dad, 2.4 children).  Not to mention, most homes would require a service upgrade to accomodate a large enough heater. 

Let’s get straight to the top of most peoples minds:  Do you save a lot of money with a tankless water heater.  The answer may surprise you, and it is not really staright forward either.  Well, what is “a lot” of money.  An average family may save about $70-$100 per year versus a standard tank type. Not a lot, but the savings are there.  Now, let’s start factoring everything else into the equation.  The cost of the unit itself (for a good brand and model) will run between $500-$1000 more than a tank type.  Now, factor in all the additional labor that will be involved.  The gas feed line will need to be increased substantially, and the vent will need to be redone.  Labor will be at least $750 more than just having your tank type swapped out.  Also, a tankless will require yearly maintenance to remove the scale and calcium buildup on the inside of the burners to ensure it will be working to capacity.  This will be at least $75.  If you add all of this up, it doesn’t take too much thought to realize it is going to take you A LONG time to recoup that $70-$100 per year that you were saving.  The life expectancy of most units is about 20 years.  You may NEVER recoup the costs. 

Since I am writing from Michigan, I will also point out another achilles heal for these units.  You must first understand how they operate.  To get the water hotter, an internal diaphragm must close slightly to slow the water down so that it stays in the burner longer.  This is what determines the gallons per minute output.  Tankless water heaters are all about the “rise” of the water temp.  The colder the incoming water, the more the diaphragm must constrict to allow it to heat, thereby leading to less gallons per minute output you will recieve.  Back to Michigan, our incoming water is VERY cold (in case you just moved here…… from the MOON).  Tankless heaters do not deliver the same gallons per minute output in the north as they do in the south.  The better brands will still be able to satisfy most families most of the time, but there may be times they cannot.  Two tankless heaters running in tandem is also an option, but remember our little math equation.  If you happen to live in the south, you could always mount in on the outside of the house. 

OK OK OK, so you are still convinced they are the way to go.  They do have some nice benefits.  The main advantage to a tankless is that you will never run out of hot water.  Yes, I am aware this can easily trump all of the disadvantages.  Some models even have an internal recirculating pump built right inside so that you don’t have to wait for hot water either.  Remember, tankless hot water does not mean instant hot water.  You will still have cold water sitting in your lines that will need to be emptied.  A giant soaking bathtub, a carwash shower with multiple body sprays and shower heads, or twice the normal size family with 4.8 children (yes, i’m aware that the family isn’t twice the size, only the amount of children is). would all benefit from endless hot water. 

If you are looking to ride the green wave, and simply want to save natural resources, then a tankless is the way to go.  Keep in mind though, a tank type does not really use that much more gas to keep it at temperature.  Insulation built into the tanks is vastly superior to what it used to be.  They also make models with extra thick insulation.

Tankless models are very nice, don’t get me wrong.  I just felt that too many people have been misinformed by the actual savings they will  produce.  They are efficient, but not necessarily economical.  

Best Wishes! 

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Inside of a tankless water heater

Water Heater Explosion.

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plugged T&P valve

T & P valve
Recently, I came across a very dangerous situation, one that I think needs to be addressed. A capped or plugged T&P valve is one of the worst “band aid” fixes you could ever do in your house.  Doing so creates the grounds for a potential bomb, or missile in your basement!  Although rare, the threat of a water heater explosion is very real. 

The T&P valve, or temperature and pressure relief valve, is one of the most important safety devices in your home.  If the temperature rises above 210 degrees Fahrenheit or the pressure exceeds 150 psi, the valve will open and relieve the pressure inside the tank.  In doing so, a small amount of water will also be dispensed onto the floor.  Unfortunately, many people mistake this for a leak or a water heater failure, when in fact, it may simply be doing what it is designed to do.  If you ever see water on your floor around this area, you should call a plumber right away.  The valve may be failing, in which case it should be replaced, or you may have excessive pressure in your tank which should be tested for.  If you happen to have a pressure reducing valve installed on your main water line, you should pay special attention to this.  A pressure reducing valve creates a closed system in your home, and will not allow for thermal expansion. If you have one of these, AND your T&P valve drips occasionally, you may need a thermal expansion tank installed. 


Now that you know what it looks like, and what it does, take the time to check it and make sure yours IS NOT CAPPED OR PLUGGED and that it works properly.  You can lift the little handle on it like the picture shows.  Sometimes you may need to let the handle snap back down to reseat it properly.  If it continues to leak a little, it either has some debris in it or the spring is failing.  You can try and open it a few times to remove any debris.  If this does not take care of it, call a plumber and have it replaced.  Make sure there is a relief tube extending to the floor in case the heater must discharge.  This is to prevent accidental scalding.  Also, you should not have threads on the bottom of the relief tube.  This will ensure that a cap cannot be screwed onto the bottom. 

Good Luck! 

The end of the cardboard center.

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Kimberly Clark announced this week they will “roll” out their experimental toilet paper roll without the cardboard center.  The move is falling under the “green” wave that is sweeping the nation.  Along with saving money on the carboard up front, they are looking to save money on the recycling of the unused portion of the cardboard. 

What does this mean for us plumbers? Well for starters, many a plumber have credited their successful careers to this little cylinder.  How you ask?  Because many people, believe it or not, will actually flush it instead of throwing it away.   If you have ever done this, you should make that practice a thing of the past. 

What does this mean for the rest of us?  It won’t mean much, unless you have school age children.  What are the kids going to do when they need a 6 inch cylinder for their school projects?  What are they going to use to color on and make a “thingamajiggy” out of when they are bored out of their minds in the middle of February.  Being halloween, I cannot help but think of the problems this is gonna play on the aerodynamics of flying toilet paper rolls over trees by the mischievous youths. 

Does this also mean the demise of the paper towel holder and wrapping paper holder are not far behind.  Somebody must put a stop to this.  I for one, will never tire of playing taps through a wrapping paper holder.

Poor flushing toilet?

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Today we will try to shed some light on why your toilet won’t flush, or flushes poorly.  There are a few causes of this, and most can be remedied.  Most of us have seen the toilet that fills up to the top, swirls around for awhile, and then eventually goes down.  The first thing you will want to determine is, whether or not it CAN flush but is having trouble, or it simply WON’T flush.  A simple test for this is to get a bucket of water, and then flush the toilet and pour the bucket into the toilet at the same time.  If it goes down fine, it is a problem with the water coming from the holding tank through the ports.  If it does not go down ok, then you have a blockage in the toilet itself, or in the drain line serving it. 

If it flushed ok with the bucket test, it most likely has clogged ports.  The ports are located under the rim.  You can use a small mirror and clean these out with a wire coat hanger, screwdriver, or a nail.  You should also clean the main port or “jet” at the bottom of the bowl as well.  After these have been cleaned, pour some vinegar into the tank slowly while holding down the handle.  Vinegar breaks down calcium and lime deposits that have accumulated in your bowls ports.  If you are on well water and have hard water stains in your bowl, this is almost a guarantee that your ports are slowly closing off.  Also, if you have ever used any sort of blue tank tablet, the remains of it may be clogging one or more of your ports.  This can be a little bit of a problem, since it will just move every time you attempt to poke at it.  Don’t worry, it will dissolve in a few MONTHS.

If it did not flush when a pail of water was dumped down it, you will have to address the blockage.  The easiest thing to do will be to try and plunge it a few times.  Be careful about excessive plunging though, as this could actually cause the wax seal to leak.  If the plunger is unable to clear the problem, then you will have to use a toilet auger.  If the closet auger is still unsuccessful, it most likely means that you have a blockage further down your drain system.  This will require the toilet to be pulled and the drain to be snaked.  This is best left to a professional. 

One more possibility could simply be that you have a very poor quality toilet.  Before the ’50’s, toilets used as much as 7 gallons of water per flush! By the end of the ’60’s they were using about 5.5 gallons per flush.  In the ’80’s, toilets were now using only 3.5 gallons per flush.  In 1995 The National Energy Policy Act (H.R. 776) went into effect and mandated toilets to use no more than 1.6 gallons per flush.  Unfortunately, almost all of the early 1.6 toilets were terrible flushing units, especially compared to all of their earlier counterparts.  You may have one of these. 

A few more thoughts and suggestions: 1. NEVER use drain cleaning chemicals.  These are only band-aid solutions that will only clear minor scum, but will not remove the actually blockage.  You should always just hire a professional drain cleaner (we DO NOT clean drains by the way) to clear your line properly.  Ancient mummies are still found with hair on their heads, do you really think  chemicals will dissolve it in your drains?  If it did, it would also be eating away at your drain lines, which would be even worse I would imagine.  2. NEVER use a tank tablet.  That pretty looking blue stuff has bleach in it, which eats away at all of the plastic in your tank and can clog your ports. 3. There are some very nice 1.6 gpf toilets available now days.  Most of them will flush better than the 3.5 gpf.  There are also dual flush types, that will flush 1.6 or 1, and there is also a 1.28 gpf.  4. DO NOT put chemicals in your drains.  Did I say that already?

Clean Work Area

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Today was a very welcome surprise.  I was called in to investigate and fix a leak that was occuring somewhere at the toilet.  When I got there, the homeowner told me that she had cleaned all around the toilet for me.  Those of you that know me, know how much this actually meant to me. 

Far too often, when I tackle a project in somebody’s home, there is quite a bit of stuff in the way.  This happens most often when trying to fix something under the kitchen sink or bathroom sink.  Most peoples sink bases are used as storage, and they are almost always full, and need to be cleared out.  This is never a pleasant job, since you never know what you are gonna find under there.  Ant traps, cleaners, jars with mystery fluid, and tupperware are always a big hit.  The bathroom is almost always worse. 

Another problem area is the basement, when a leak needs to be fixed or a water heater replaced.  Now, I certainly don’t expect the area to be made ready for a royal entry, but at least make a path.  There was one job I was on for a Calvin College professor, who seemed to own more books than the congressional library.  The problem was,  75% of these books were in my way.  I doubled as a moving company that day. 

The point of all of this is this: as a courtesy to your service person, whoever it may be entering your home, try to be aware of potential areas they may be working in and make sure it is safe and clean if possible.  This will make the job go safer, smoother and faster, which by the way, will save you money with an hourly plumbing company such as us.  
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All Area, All ready to go!

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We are pleased to be up and running with our brand new blog and interactive “ask the plumber” resource.  A big Thank You to Rebecca LeClaire of www.mcdesignservices.com for all of her fantastic work getting this set up.

It is our hope that you will feel free to ask us anything plumbing related that may be on your mind.   Please remember though, that your plumbing system, and a professional plumber should not be taken for granted.  There are many real dangers involved with plumbing, that should not be taken lightly.  Any advice given should be taken as a guide, or recommendation only, and should not be viewed as a substitute for a qualified professional.  Cross-contamination, backflow, gasses (methane, propane and natural), Legionaires disease, excessive temperature and pressure explosions, flooding, and fire are all very real threats. 

Thank you for stopping by, and have a great day!